Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome

[Kotoko]

Basically, I'm wondering if I have DSPS.

Since about late elementary school/early high school, I've considered myself a night owl. For the most part, it wasn't too bad, going to bed around midnight or so even though my parents wanted me in bed by about 10pm. But closer to grade 11 and onwards (I'm currently in my second year of university), I started going to bed around 1am-3am and having to wake up around 7am for school on weekdays and piano lessons and church on Saturdays and Sundays. Needless to say, it was pretty hard, considering I need about 9 hrs. of sleep each night.

Now that I'm university, I can sleep in for a little longer usually and wake up around 8-9am most days but 5:30am on Tuesdays for clinical (I'm a nursing student and our clinical days start at 7am). However, I always find myself going to bed really late. For example, it's almost 4am right now. I started feeling tired around 3am and will probably go to bed soon after I post this message.

Anyway, unlike a lot of DSPS sufferers (from what I've read), I'm able to wake up in the morning - it's very difficult but I can do it and drag myself to class to hear the day's lectures. My marks have never suffered, but I do recall taking plenty of power naps during grade 11 and 12 in order to get through the day. It's almost as if I'm so used to feeling tired that I can ignore it as long as I keep myself busy. Furthermore, I'm wondering if my own deliberate actions are causing this weird sleeping schedule? For example, I'm on the computer a lot, so is my compulsion to be on the computer a cause of sleeping late? On the other hand, I don't really feel tired until at least 2am so I end up staying on the computer until I do feel tired...but I often wonder if it's just me telling myself that and forcing myself to ignore my sleepiness until it becomes intolerable for my body to keep going.

Still, if I'm able to still do well in my day-to-day life, is it even worth bringing up with a health professional?

[troubadour]

I think I'm in the same boat as you. I am successful enough in day to day life that a health professional is not the answer I'm looking for.
I graduated high school, got a scholarship to college, graduated from college, and now work a job that I am overqualified for but at least the hours are a little more conveniant then 9-5. All through high school and college I think I was going to bed after 3 AM. Looking back on my life I think I have already seen more sunrises than 98.5% of people I encounter.
As long as I can remember I've been a night owl (since before high school). I always feel like sh*t for 3-4 hours after waking up, whether I've slept for an hour or two, or up to eight or nine, it doesn;'t seem to matter. I always just sort of looked at it as I was different then everybody else. Its good too know other people are dealing with this and still having somewhat of a normal life.
I've tried reg exercise, even tried an 8AM-4PM job, turned to alcohol for awhile, but stopped that for the most part, and even the green stuff. Nothing worked, I'm always groggy in the morning, and theres always that "adjustment" period for several hours after I wake up. Unfortunately I think I'm destined to be single because of the disorder, but I'm not depressed, although I think this disorder might fuel my general dislike for most people. I hide that for the most part, but sometimes its hard.
I guess all I'm saying is your not the only one.

troubadour

[Oana]

This is quite how my life has been at least ever since I was 11 because in secondary school I had to wake up at 6.30am max to go to school and then I had tons of homework to do, which took at least until midnight. The same story was in highschool, too. I've never had problems with grades or with studying because of my unusual sleeping schedule, but I don't think I'd ever be able to really learn something in the morning, not even if my life depended on it.
I also have a problem waking up in the morning, so sometimes when i really have to get somewhere or do something before 10am, I prefer not to sleep at all. I know that I brought on myself part of this problem because at university we don't have classes only in the morning or only in the after-noon and I also have quite annoying flatmates who enjoy turning the music/tv really loud when I'm trying to concentrate, so I began studying and doing essays and projects only at night, which means that the hour I go to bed changed dramatically from 2-3am to around 6am.
Fortunately, this is my last semester at university, so I have quite a few classes because we also have to work for our graduation thesis and to study for the graduation exam, which means that my sleep pattern doesn't interfere too much with school, but I'm afraid of what is going to happen when I get a job.

[Circadiabsurdium]

Hi, Kotoko

I'm no doctor, but it sounds like you could have DSPS. I know that the official criteria (from the DSM IV) say that you don't have unless it causes "clinically important distress or impairs work or social life," but I don't think that just because someone is able to do well in spite of it cancels out the diagnosis - it just means that you are more intelligent or more disciplined, or whatever. It's all relative - if you do less well having a delayed circadian rhythm than you otherwise would, then I think does "impair[] work or social life" even if you are able to partially compensate for it.

Something you can do at home to confirm a diagnosis is to keep a sleep journal for a couple weeks, noting when you tried to go to bed, how long it took to fall asleep, interruptions, how alert you felt at different times of day. Normal people should NOT take more than about an hour after a full night's rest to waking up before starting to feel human - yes, that means you, Troubador!

But a key signal, one doctors are likely to pay more attention to, is body temperature. You'll need an accurate thermometer - if you go digital, note that most are only accurate within about half a degree, and you want something accurate to within at least two tenths of a degree. Then, measure at different times of day, but always at least half an hour after eating, drinking, exercising, showering, generally anything that could cause a temperature shift. Do this for about 2 weeks, and plot it all on a graph. The temperature minimum is typically several hours before the body's natural spontaneous wake time (if you are normal, this would probably be between 3-5 am). If your average daily minimum temperature is at about the time you have to wake up for a morning class, it means your body thinks it's still supposed to be asleep, and you probably have DSPS.

You are right that there might be some "sleep hygiene" issues with being on the computer late at night. Supposedly evening exposure to light (especially the blue component of light) impairs melatonin production. Some people recommend using glasses that block blue light in the evening. Also, in general, they say it is better to do something "relaxing" the hour before bed. For some people, that includes taking a leisurely walk, reading, watching TV, surfing the net, etc. For me, most of those things are way too stimulating. I can get away with purging old messages from my email, and that's about it; I have to do something completely brainless like folding laundry, playing with my cats, listening to music while staring into space, etc. Maybe, if things that are relaxing to normal people are stimulating for you, that's another signal pointing to DSPS. I won't go on about sleep hygiene any more, because there are hundreds of articles out there on the topic. If you are reluctant to see a doctor, try all the sleep hygiene, "follow a strict schedule," "no napping" stuff first. If you diligently follow these rules and they don't work, that's another sign of DSPS.

Whether it is worth bringing up with a health professional is another story. They are starting to understand more about treating DSPS using bright light and melatonin. With both, the timing is important, because if you do either at the wrong time, you could shift your rhythm the wrong way and just make things worse. If you have good insurance and can find a sleep specialist who knows what they are doing, that is probably the safest route. Plus, your insurance might pay for a light box if you need one. But if you can handle finding and interpreting the studies yourself (us college types have a bit of advantage here, depending on what we studied), it might be easier and faster (and cheaper) to self-treat - that's what I'm doing. I got a light box and in about a week have been able to shift my spontaneous wake time from about noon to 9am, and the days that I have to be at my 8am class, there has been a remarkable decrease in the duration AND intensity of my "sick morningness." Anyway, it has been the best $200 I ever spent, assuming it keeps on working.

I posted elsewhere on this forum that it's probably better to bring this up with a psychologist, because they are more likely to know something about sleep and have read about new advances in sleep knowledge. If you go this route, I would definitely recommend keeping a sleep journal with the stuff I mentioned above (including temperature), and also times you exercised, ate, drank caffeine, took medication such as antihistamines that might affect sleep, and maybe even exposure to sunlight. You might bring a copy of the DSM IV to your appointment, just in case the psychologist isn't up to date.

Sorry for such a long post. Hopefully some of this is helpful to some people.

[Kotoko]

Ha! It's been months since I originally posted this thread so take this as an overdue reply ^^

Still haven't seen any health professional for my "sleeping habits" but, again, it's not a huge issue. Yet. School is starting next week and, looking at my schedule, I have to get up early every day, which won't be fun at all. And this summer, I've been able to make a few interesting observations about my sleeping habits.

This summer, I've been working as a temporary personal support worker (PSW) at a nursing home. I've worked every shift possible - morning, evenings, and nights. Morning shifts start at 7am, evenings start at 3pm or 5pm depending on whether you're working the full or short shift, and nights start at 11pm. I had absolutely no problems getting through the evening and night shifts - in fact, I found I liked the night shifts best. It was the morning shifts that were terrible. Not only are they the busiest shifts but they also meant getting up at 6am. If I knew I had a morning shift the next day, I would do my best to be in bed by 11pm at the latest - not quite early enough to squeeze in the necessary 9 hours of sleep I need but it would be enough at the very least and I knew I almost definitely wouldn't be able to sleep earlier than that based on my history.

But no matter what, on these nights, it took a while to get to sleep - probably at least an hour. Even when I did get to sleep, I would toss and turn all night, waking maybe 2-4 times before having to finally get up at 6am. This is in huge contrast to when I go to bed at my "natural"(?) bedtime of 4-5am - I fall asleep within half an hour and don't wake up for anything until roughly 9 hours later.

Those morning shifts wrecked havoc on my body and sleeping patterns because, after working several morning shifts in a row, my body got used to waking up early. But it still kept up its late night habits. As a result, I'd get to bed at 4am and wake up at 10am (which, compared to waking up at 6am, is like sleeping in!), leading to some sleep deprivation. Ack! Slowly, though, my body is readjusting to the sleep-late-wake-late pattern since I haven't had to work a morning shift in the last few weeks but because school is coming up soon, I worry >_<

[Pfree]

I have learned more from these posts than any dr I went to. I've always been a night owl. I can remember laying in my bed in the middle of the night as a child staring at the roof. No dr has ever even mentioned dsps. I've done all the hygiene stuff recommended by a dr/shrink. They seemed to think it was in my head anxiety etc. and this was partly true due to my life's challenges(single mom working 2-3 jobs) I have noticed the days I'm out in the sun I feel more rested the next day if I'm allowed to awaken naturally. I try to do my meditations outside 1st thing to start my day after my cuppa jo if I don't do it then I most likely won't do it at all. But now I'm considering a light. I keep my house very dark at night and only have the tv on till 10 or 11 or if I'm reading one reading lamp which is more likely as I read for hrs at night. I have never done the temp test tho and started today. I've always wondered if my low body temp and low blood pressure had anything to do w/ the difficulty in waking.I'm useless in the am. It's clearly interfered w/ my social world as I know personally no other night owls. All my friends and relatives get up 5-7am and I'm often awake till the sun comes up.We socialize via emails mostly,then there is no expectation of an immediate response.I also have IC which can interrupt sleep especially during a flare up but this has only been since 2005. There are so many classes and musical concerts and retreats etc I've had to just accept I couldn't do, not to mention brunches lunches movies dinners etc. But it is good to know it isn't a character flaw of mine or I am not made of weaker stuff than others as I used to think when I was younger. For years I forced myself awake early. Lots of coffee and phenylalanine w/ niacin and yerba mate to jolt myself awake which I'm sure was not good for me but w/ all my responsibilities I had to be UP and working. But even then I had trouble falling asleep no matter how tired. I'm 54 now and it's just become the theme in my life my schedule is made around my sleep patterns. I'm so grateful that I can do this as I only have to get up early (for me) once or twice a week. But those days it's very much an auto pilot still as I'm too tired to be really all there. Scheduling appts is really a pain the rest of the world moves at a completely different rhythm. The positive sides of being a night owl (I think) it is sublimely quiet at night and so much less crowded. I've found crowds difficult for a while now and there is so much less invasive energy when things are still. Even riding my bike at night to go to the store it's so wonderfully peaceful out. The tradeoff of course is big not too many daytime activities or sun plus sleeping w/ daytime noises is a b#*&x!! Unfortunately the local pool can't be used at night and a lot of places close early but exercise should be done as early as possible anyway.
I appreciate all I've learned from these posts.
Thanks for listening
P